{"id":3279,"date":"2020-11-24T10:58:41","date_gmt":"2020-11-24T15:58:41","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.icsom.org\/senzasordino\/?p=3279"},"modified":"2020-11-24T11:00:47","modified_gmt":"2020-11-24T16:00:47","slug":"the-state-of-the-art-complete-interview","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.icsom.org\/senzasordino\/2020\/11\/the-state-of-the-art-complete-interview\/","title":{"rendered":"The State of the Art\u2014Complete Interview"},"content":{"rendered":"

I<\/span>CSOM invited Michael Kaiser to speak with MAL Keith Carrick and Chair Meredith Snow on the current state of the arts as we progress through this pandemic. Currently Chairman of the DeVos Institute of Arts Management, Kaiser served as president of the John F. Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts from 2001 to 2014. His work leading other arts organizations, such as the Kansas City Ballet, Alvin Ailey American Dance Theater, American Ballet Theatre, and the Royal Opera House\u2014in many cases leading them out of financial peril\u2014has made him a much sought-after arts management consultant. He is also the author of several books about arts management (Note: see the October 2013 issue)<\/em><\/a>.<\/p>\n

KC:<\/strong> Michael, thank you for joining us. I thought I\u2019d start out with a couple of easy icebreakers. My first question is, how have you been spending your time during the pandemic? And I want to qualify that\u2014outside of your duties with your institute\u2014because I know you\u2019ve been doing a lot of work there.<\/p>\n

MK:<\/strong> That\u2019s all I\u2019m doing\u2014it\u2019s been a crazy time. We have our typical client base, which has pretty much held intact, but we also work a lot with Bloomberg Philanthropies and we\u2019re working on a major project that involves writing plans for 145 organizations. It\u2019s been incredible. And then when the pandemic first struck, we wanted to do something for the field, so we offered an hour of free consulting to any arts organization in the US that wanted it. We ended up talking with 534 organizations\u2014that was 534 hours\u2014 it wasn\u2019t all me, I did a big chunk of it, but you can imagine it took a long time to finish.<\/p>\n

KC:<\/strong> That\u2019s a lot of time in front of a computer screen.<\/p>\n

MK:<\/strong> YES!<\/p>\n

KC:<\/strong> Well that\u2019s time well spent, especially now and it is certainly needed. Then I wanted to ask if there was anything that pleasantly surprised you about being in quarantine?<\/p>\n

MK:<\/strong> Personally or professionally?<\/p>\n

KC:<\/strong> I\u2019ll go with whatever you\u2019re feeling right now.<\/p>\n

MK:<\/strong> Nothing personally really. Professionally, what really interested me was how well cultural institutions dealt with that first few month period, and the PPP loans made it so much easier of course. There was a lot of extraordinary fundraising. But organizations pivoted really fast and kept in touch with their donors and their boards and their staff and had to make, in many cases, extremely difficult decisions. It wasn\u2019t fun but I think arts organizations in general did a really, really good job.<\/p>\n

KC:<\/strong> Why don\u2019t we talk about those phases that you have outlined previously:
\nPhase I: the sudden stop at the beginning, the lockdowns
\nPhase II: where we are waiting to get back into our theaters and trying to stay relevant\u2014<\/p>\n

MK:<\/strong> \u2014that\u2019s where we are right now\u2014Some of us can do some performance with socially distanced audience and a tiny orchestra\u2014it\u2019s good work to be done, but it\u2019s not full orchestras playing for a full audience and this is the hard period because we\u2019ve run out of our PPP money. A lot of our funders are still being generous but not a lot of them are making these extra grants anymore, so that money\u2019s gone and we don\u2019t know when this ends. It\u2019s a very uncomfortable period\u2014wanting to be of service, wanting to keep in touch, needing to stay solvent, still having very little earned income and who knows when we can go back. And then having major contractual issues with orchestra members and other union artists. What makes sense to have as a contract right now? It\u2019s a very hard time.<\/p>\n

KC:<\/strong> Yes, of course\u2014I think we share your opinion that this is the hardest phase for all of us. We don\u2019t know how long it\u2019s going to last and it\u2019s probably the longest phase, honestly.<\/p>\n

MK:<\/strong> \u2014yes, except for Phase IV which goes on forever. But Phase III, which is the recovery phase, is an interesting time to think about. Obviously when we have a vaccine, when it\u2019s widely available, and when it\u2019s trusted\u2014which are all separate things\u2014and when we can go back into the theater and the audience is comfortable, the challenge that I\u2019m seeing at that phase is everyone is going to be starting up at the same time. And by everyone, I\u2019m not just talking about our cultural institutions but I\u2019m also talking about sports, hotels, cruise lines, you name it\u2014anyone with something that\u2019s entertainment related. They will all at once be there \u2013trying to recoup, trying to build back, trying to regain their audience, and it\u2019s going to be highly competitive.<\/p>\n

It\u2019s going to be a very exciting time\u2014everyone\u2019s going to be so happy\u2014I know I will be when I can go back and see performances again. But it\u2019s also going to be a competitive time with an awful lot of activity happening to compete for people\u2019s time and attention and money.<\/p>\n

Why I think this is critical, is not that I\u2019m pessimistic, but that arts organizations will need to be ready to come back with real excitement and vigor. And that puts pressure on us now in Phase II. Phase II is not just about surviving, pivoting to what we can do online, and doing all the good stuff we\u2019re trying to do now. For me, Phase II, maybe as importantly, is planning what we\u2019re going to do in Phase III. So that when we come back, it\u2019s really great. Because if it\u2019s not really great, we\u2019re not going to have the audience we need. Right now, we\u2019re training our audiences to get the arts online for free wherever and whenever they want\u2014maybe to enjoy a performance by a symphony in Sweden\u2014because it\u2019s available online now. So we have to woo our audience back and the way I think we\u2019re going to do that is with great exciting work. I think that\u2019s the real challenge of Phase III.<\/p>\n

KC:<\/strong> Right, the planning that needs to happen. Let\u2019s talk about Phase II since this is the part that\u2019s the most painful for the musicians of ICSOM. I know you\u2019ve floated this idea of an orchestra hibernating and conserving its resources during this time.<\/p>\n

MK:<\/strong> That was not a prescription, you understand.<\/p>\n

KC:<\/strong> Yes, I think I\u2019m asking about what this might look like in practice for an orchestra that ends up in this place.<\/p>\n

MK:<\/strong> It\u2019s ugly. Hibernation is not a fun thing\u2014I suggested that it is an option. It is not the first choice by any means. Hibernation basically says, \u201cwe cannot afford to live through this as a functioning institution and the only thing we can do is essentially go to sleep until there is earned revenue again.\u201d There are some organizations for whom that is true. If they try to keep paying people and doing work right now, they would end up closed before the end of the pandemic which is no ones\u2019 first choice. The idea of hibernation was for those organizations that are simply too weak to last. The board keeps meeting to keep the legal entity alive. That\u2019s what hibernation means\u2014it\u2019s not a great option.<\/p>\n

KC:<\/strong> No, I would think this should be the last option.<\/p>\n

MK:<\/strong> I agree. We want all furloughs to be as short as possible. We don\u2019t want to see people losing their livelihoods. That\u2019s no ones\u2019 choice, first or second or third. It\u2019s the last choice. But I think what is more important, from my perspective and I would hope from the union musicians\u2019 perspective, is that the long-term future of your institution is secure rather than that you have this burst of glory until January 2021 and then you shut your doors forever. That\u2019s what I would like to avoid.<\/p>\n

KC:<\/strong> Of course! It\u2019s never the union\u2019s position that we should drain the institution of all its resources.<\/p>\n

MK:<\/strong> No, I know that. I\u2019m not accusing anybody of that, I\u2019m just saying that\u2019s where hibernation really comes into play. To be honest, most even mid-sized American orchestras don\u2019t have to look at hibernation because they have other resources upon which to draw. It\u2019s really some other kinds of smaller organizations with no reserves whatsoever\u2014who simply can\u2019t survive any other way.<\/p>\n

KC:<\/strong> One thing we\u2019re worried about is\u2014I\u2019ve titled it \u201ccreative drain\u201d\u2014where the pandemic will affect students and even our seasoned artists in orchestras, who might choose to leave the field. I wonder if you have any ideas on how we might prevent this drain on the creative side of our profession?<\/p>\n

MK:<\/strong> I hope this won\u2019t go long enough that that will really have a major impact. Not that there will be no one who would ever decide to leave, but people may decide that anyway. For me, the thing that I believe keeps people excited and engaged, whether it\u2019s a musician who\u2019s thinking about their career or a donor who\u2019s thinking about giving, is talking about the exciting work you can do when you come back. I think when the discussion is only about the here and now and the loss, that\u2019s when we lose people\u2014all kinds of people\u2014musicians, donors, board members, administrators, whatever. If the conversation is more about what\u2019s awaiting us\u2014in 6 months or 8 months, not so far away to be honest\u2014that to me is the compelling message.<\/p>\n

I find that we sometimes extrapolate from one data point in this country\u2014things are bad, so things are always going to be bad. Where I think that is really a problem is when we forget to inspire people. We have to inspire people all the time. I frankly would rather see orchestras do one less virtual performance and one more virtual Town Hall meeting where the leadership talks to the donor base about \u201cHere\u2019s where we\u2019re going. Here\u2019s what\u2019s going on right now, but just stick with us because this is the great stuff about to happen and you don\u2019t want to miss it!\u201d That\u2019s the message that I always want to have\u2014in a recession, in a pandemic, not that I\u2019ve faced one before\u2014this message of the exciting things to come. If we focus on the negative, then that becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. You lose musicians and donors and audience and everybody.
\nBut the end isn\u2019t that far away. Let\u2019s hope we\u2019re back in September of 2021, that\u2019s not so far from now.<\/p>\n

KC:<\/strong> This reminds me of the advice I\u2019ve read in your books about long-term planning. It seems like you are advocating \u201cstay the course.\u201d<\/p>\n

MK:<\/strong> Yes, but I don\u2019t want to use the phrase \u201cstay the course.\u201d It\u2019s the same advice, but it\u2019s \u201cwhat\u2019s the most exciting thing that\u2019s going to happen.\u201d That\u2019s what inspires people. I think the work we did with the Baltimore Symphony last December\u2014when they were not in good shape\u2014we created a plan that was talking about what they wanted to do going forward. It\u2019s exciting stuff and we raised $9 million in six weeks. And they are lasting through this pandemic in better shape than a lot of orchestras, having been, just a year ago, in dire straits.<\/p>\n

People get inspired by the work we do. That\u2019s why they keep giving us money. People love the art you make\u2014so let\u2019s focus on that. Let\u2019s not focus on the short-term challenge. We whine too much in the arts. We complain, we share the pain too much. It\u2019s a bad habit. That\u2019s not why people support us\u2014no one gives us money because we\u2019re in pain or we\u2019re suffering, people give us money because they\u2019re inspired by us. We\u2019ve got to be more disciplined about the way we talk about our challenges.
\nI\u2019ll say this: I think arts organizations did much better now, in this pandemic, than they did in the recession of 2008\u201309. Much better. But we still have a ways to go.<\/p>\n

KC:<\/strong> Right\u2014I think that\u2019s wonderful advice for the moment. You talked about the Baltimore Symphony being well positioned going into the pandemic, I wonder if there are other institutions that you think are being innovative and handling the pandemic well. What are they doing? What do they look like?<\/p>\n

MK:<\/strong> I think the organizations\u2014and I don\u2019t know all their names\u2014but the ones who have kept their donors in the loop, their board members in the loop, obviously their artists in the loop, who are discussing options for the future, who are planning important work for the future\u2014those are the ones who are doing a good job in my mind.<\/p>\n

Some are a whole lot better at pivoting and putting stuff online. I think it\u2019s lovely and wonderful, I just don\u2019t want organizations to lose their shirt doing it. Particularly if they\u2019re on thin ice anyway. We\u2019re not getting money back for this work\u2014we\u2019re not getting paid for it. I worry that we\u2019re using up very scarce resources. It\u2019s not that it\u2019s evil or bad or wrong, it\u2019s just that you have to do it in moderation and you have to do it looking at your own organization\u2019s context. How much of this can we afford to do and maintain our solvency?<\/p>\n

KC:<\/strong> What are the important steps now for planning and implementing projects for Phase III\u2014when you\u2019re sizing up if it\u2019s something you can or can\u2019t do? And whether it\u2019s worth it?<\/p>\n

MK:<\/strong> First, you want to make sure, aesthetically, it\u2019s what you want to do as an organization, that it\u2019s part of what you care about. Then you have to really see how you\u2019re going to build an audience for it. And how much it\u2019s going to cost\u2014that has to be part of an overarching budget. What I\u2019ve suggested to organizations is that they budget this fiscal year in chunks of time, like quarters rather than in years. Assuming that we\u2019re not going to get fully onstage until next autumn, how much of this next quarter can we afford to lose? And now let\u2019s evaluate our projects according to that fiscal reality.<\/p>\n

KC:<\/strong> I like that idea. It\u2019s hard to know what\u2019s going to happen in the next few weeks\u2014I like the idea of short-term plans.<\/p>\n

MK:<\/strong> You\u2019ve got to do short-term chunks. Again, I\u2019m not trying to sound negative about the work that organizations are putting online, much of it is wonderful, but I just don\u2019t want it to impoverish the organization going forward. Going back to my point about Phase III, I want to make sure that in Phase III, the orchestras have enough resources to do really blockbuster work and not three months of Haydn symphonies because that\u2019s all they can afford.<\/p>\n

KC:<\/strong> Are there any opportunities that are uniquely available as the result of the pandemic, anything we might have missed that you think is an opportunity?<\/p>\n

MK:<\/strong> Well we have an opportunity to reach out beyond our normal geography because of the internet. Of course online arts existed long before COVID\u2014I wrote a book about it because I think it\u2019s causing great destruction in our arts ecology, or a great challenge, let\u2019s say. We do have the opportunity, if our work is interesting enough, to reach out to a much broader audience than we can reach when we sit in our own hall in our home city. In that sense, there\u2019s a real opportunity. I\u2019ve not yet seen the orchestra that has fully taken advantage of that, or figured out how to put something online that is so enticing that a large swath of people will partake. But most importantly, how do we keep that audience once we return to our hall? What can we do to maintain that broader geographical audience and how do we turn them into supporters?<\/p>\n

There\u2019s a cautionary tale here, which is the Metropolitan Opera movie theater broadcasts. It\u2019s not clear to me, after a decade or more of broadcasts, that the millions of people around the world who attend those events support the MET in any other way. How do you get people who attend at a distance to feel close enough to give?<\/p>\n

MS:<\/strong> I think it\u2019s important to recognize that what we offer, in real time, is live performance that is locally funded. It\u2019s not an international market, although that exposure and recognition is important to your local market. Our funding, our donor base, live in the same communities in which the orchestra lives.<\/p>\n

In light of the pandemic there has been worldwide recognition of the systemic racism that exists in our country. Is there a way for us to better position ourselves now, during the shutdown, to address this issue within our orchestras?<\/p>\n

MK:<\/strong> First of all, inclusivity and equity are long-term issues that have to be addressed in the long-term. By which I\u2019m not saying, \u201cdon\u2019t make progress now.\u201d What I mean is that you can\u2019t do something today and it\u2019s fixed. For me it\u2019s about a sustained and consistent decision to embrace diverse people in every way. Not just through your outreach activities but through the repertoire you program, the people you put in your orchestra, on your board, and in your staff, and the marketing tools you use.<\/p>\n

It\u2019s about changing the whole quilt of work we do. This is a field that I spend a lot of time in and I care deeply about. I see too many organizations who think they can do one work by a black composer and now \u201cwe have done it.\u201d That\u2019s not how it works. It\u2019s about consistently working to build a family of people who care about you.<\/p>\n

And to build this family into a diverse family. What brings people to you is the work you do, the artists you have, and the way you market. Can it be done? I absolutely believe it can be. But it doesn\u2019t happen because it\u2019s the issue of the day. The organization has to decide to make this a consistent priority. I\u2019ll give an example: [The] Cleveland Orchestra made a decision to try to bring in a younger audience. They raised a lot of money and put in the effort for a decade. They made this priority a real focus of their work and they\u2019ve had some very good results. We need to take the same kind of long-term, institutional approach to building diversity in our field. Our orchestras have to make a real, long-standing, commitment to diversity.<\/p>\n

MS:<\/strong> I think every stratum of the organization needs to accept the responsibility and the desire to make this happen.<\/p>\n

MK:<\/strong> I agree 100%. I\u2019m afraid we\u2019re living in a period where a lot of organizations will\u2014not with lack of integrity but just with lack of knowledge\u2014will write a nice statement, do a few things, and think they\u2019re now done.<\/p>\n

MS:<\/strong> And then there\u2019s always the lack of money\u2026.<\/p>\n

MK:<\/strong> Yes, but there\u2019s lots of money being spent on orchestras in this country right now. It\u2019s a question of where it\u2019s being spent, how it\u2019s being spent. Is this a priority in your budget or not?<\/p>\n

KC:<\/strong> I think this applies to the diversity issue as well. There have to be specific goals.<\/p>\n

MK:<\/strong> Planning is about specifics, it\u2019s not about generalities.<\/p>\n

KC:<\/strong> For orchestras that are literally not able to use their halls right now, we risk destruction of parts of our arts industry\u2014or at least a serious scale back. How do we talk to our communities and our government leaders about the ripple effects this has in our community and on our future? How do we work with them on this issue?<\/p>\n

MK:<\/strong> You won\u2019t like my answer. But I\u2019m consistent and I say this all the time. I don\u2019t think we reach our government leaders by moralizing. It\u2019s our first inclination\u2014\u201cthe arts are good for the community, you should give us more, you should be more supportive.\u201d Of course they should!<\/p>\n

But we have this separation of Arts and State, and they are not supportive. The way I think we get more is by doing more. Being more visible. Being exciting and being engaging. Rather than moralizing \u201cyou should give us more.\u201d I think we tend to use moral arguments a lot and I don\u2019t think they work because their value system and ours are different. I think we have to win people over by showing how great our work is, how it brings communities together, how it helps them recover, and by being really excited about the great things we\u2019re doing as opposed to trying to pressure them, saying how important we are and they should give us money. We\u2019ve tried that for a lot of years and it hasn\u2019t worked particularly well.<\/p>\n

KC:<\/strong> The way I\u2019m hearing this is that our leaders will respond to the way our community feels. If our community feels we are important, then our leaders will.<\/p>\n

MK:<\/strong> I think that\u2019s true. I think the leaders will also respond when they are engaged by us. When they come to something astonishing and they think, \u201cwow that was really great. I need to make sure that keeps happening in my community.\u201d As opposed to \u201cyou should give us more money.\u201d That doesn\u2019t mean we shouldn\u2019t do lobbying, of course we should. But I think my concept of institutional marketing, getting all segments of our community excited about who we are, is more effective than moralizing.<\/p>\n

MS:<\/strong> Have you seen examples of orchestras successfully partnering with their neighboring cultural institutions? Concurrent exhibits or interactive performances?<\/p>\n

MK:<\/strong> Oh sure, I do see them but I have to say I see orchestras doing it less than others. I see dance companies working with museums a lot. I think orchestras have been less flexible, in part because they are so large. It has to do with flexibility of planning, reaching out and building relationships across arts and educational institutions. Should it happen more? Absolutely. Could it happen more? Would it benefit everyone? Absolutely.<\/p>\n

MS:<\/strong> Planning ahead.<\/p>\n

MK:<\/strong> Planning ahead and not falling into the \u201coverture, concerto, symphony\u201d slotting of performances where each one is sort of the same and who\u2019s on next week?<\/p>\n

That to me, the \u201cslots mentality\u201d is death to the arts.<\/p>\n

KC:<\/strong> Has the arts industry grown to such a level that we need a government department, like a Secretary of Culture?<\/p>\n

MK:<\/strong> Oh, I would love it! But again, I don\u2019t see that happening. You know, our country was founded by the Puritans who thought music and dance were evil and we have had this separation of Art and State. The NEA grants are lovely but they\u2019re tiny and we don\u2019t have that level of commitment to culture from our Federal Government. We also have so many different departments that employ artists or do arts that I made a very minor and failed attempt to get one administration to actually unify these together. For example, the largest purchaser of musical instruments in the world is the Department of Defense. Imagine if we could collaborate the purchase of instruments between the military and our schools? And get better deals. But we can\u2019t at this point. I would love a Department of Culture\u2014I don\u2019t think there will be one in my lifetime\u2026.but it would be fantastic.<\/p>\n

KC:<\/strong> I see it also from a shrewd jobs standpoint. We see how many jobs in the industry are currently on hold\u2014an entire large segment of our economy is shut down, arts, entertainment, culture, all of it.<\/p>\n

MK:<\/strong> But you see, to be honest, I think we\u2019ve failed\u2014for a couple of reasons. I don\u2019t think we\u2019ve done a good job of marketing to our government. I don\u2019t know if they still do this, but every year when the NEA was going to Congress to get its funding, they would send a panel of artists to talk to them. They were very starry and glitzy, I remember Yo Yo Ma and Alec Baldwin, all these great people who made a bazillion dollars personally. We\u2019ve created this feeling through that and through our ticket pricing that the arts are for the elite. Governments don\u2019t fund elites that way. How much more potent would it be to have a public school music teacher testify about the importance of funding the arts? I think we put too much emphasis on the glitzy side of the arts and that makes an impression on a lot of people that the arts are not for them but for the elite. They already have so much money why should we give them more? I think we make a big mistake that way.<\/p>\n

KC:<\/strong> I think this is a valuable point about how we communicate with our communities and our officials. I get a much clearer sense of what you\u2019re talking about in how we present our face to the community.<\/p>\n

MK:<\/strong> It\u2019s always the fanciest stuff first. And then our ticket pricing really needs to be addressed. Between 1960 and 2015 the Metropolitan Opera orchestra seats went up by a factor of 30. The economy as a whole only went up by a factor of 7.5\u2014those seats went up 4 times the rate of inflation. And then we\u2019re surprised when people say \u201cI can\u2019t afford this. It\u2019s for \u2018them\u2019. Why should my government tax money go to \u2018them\u2019?\u201d We have not presented our work in a way that makes people feel like it is for everyone. And we\u2019ve been doing this for long enough that when we put something up for free online, we don\u2019t build new audiences. We say we are. We\u2019re not. We\u2019re just giving free stuff online to people who consume our product anyway. And then we\u2019re surprised that we haven\u2019t broadened our field and everyone is not giving us their tax dollars. I think we\u2019ve done a really bad job.<\/p>\n

KC:<\/strong> I think that lines up with the diversity issue too.<\/p>\n

MK:<\/strong> It does. It\u2019s all tied together. And you know, it doesn\u2019t come from evilness, it comes from fear. Running an orchestra is really hard. I know musicians often complain about their managements. But it\u2019s not because their managements are evil or stupid or lazy or bad. It\u2019s just hard\u2014it\u2019s really hard. We\u2019re so scared that we\u2019re not going to have the resources we need to pay our bills and to have an audience, to do good work, that we forget what really creates resources for us is engaging our whole community and making them feel part of this. We just focus on this one donor that gave us $10,000 last year and we need $15,000 this year and how do we make them happier? I appreciate why that is, I\u2019ve been there. But it\u2019s not really what gets us the resources we need on a sustained basis.<\/p>\n

KC:<\/strong> I\u2019ve never thought of my managers as lazy or evil or anything like that. A lot of times I see them as overworked.<\/p>\n

MK:<\/strong> They are!<\/p>\n

KC:<\/strong> They don\u2019t have time to sit and do the creative thinking that comes from a quiet place.<\/p>\n

MK:<\/strong> We\u2019ve also just beaten the creativity out of the field, to be honest. We\u2019re so worried about money that we plan to a budget rather than plan to an idea and then find the budget for it. It\u2019s about \u201cwhat can we afford to spend\u201d rather than \u201cwhat\u2019s the dream project we\u2019ve always wanted to do and then let\u2019s find the money for it.\u201d If we do that dream project, more people are going to want to support us because we\u2019ve done something amazing. I think our creativity has been beaten out of us and it\u2019s a very serious phenomenon. Particularly because of the rise of so many new forms of entertainment that are so inexpensive to the user. That is making more people feel like the arts are just not relevant to their lives. Nothing could be further from the truth if they actually participated, but they write it off because we have not attended to the way we present ourselves, because it\u2019s not affordable\u2014we need to make people really feel a part of our work.<\/p>\n

MS:<\/strong> Keith, could I kick the hornet\u2019s nest a little?<\/p>\n

MK:<\/strong> I think I\u2019ve kicked it plenty already!<\/p>\n

MS:<\/strong> How could musicians help in that regard without giving up our hard-fought salaries? How could we assist in the effort of being more egalitarian?<\/p>\n

MK:<\/strong> There are parts of a lot of contracts which really make it harder for many orchestras, that I know, to engage individual artists in some work in the community. It either costs too much or it\u2019s too difficult to organize. There are issues there. I almost wish that orchestra members could create some kind of innovation fund where there\u2019d be some money taken from the contract to be used for projects that they think would be the most astonishing thing that ever happened. It would actually perpetuate their ability to earn their salaries because they would be engaging with more people. I know that\u2019s not how our system works and I know the expectation is the orchestra will pay for those things. But there\u2019s also a limit to the money so the question is where does it come from for this?<\/p>\n

The big answer for me, and I know this is Pollyanna-ish and I know everyone is going to laugh when I say this, but I really wish that the leadership of the orchestra and the leadership of the musicians, all the musicians, could really work together better. And just talk more. And not just talk at negotiations, but really talk about programming\u2014not just through a committee\u2014just really open dialogue about what would make a difference to our orchestra, what would matter to our community, how can we make that work? I wish this could be a free and open and easy dialogue that wasn\u2019t fraught with overtones of negotiations. We are in this together and the truth is, the musicians have the most to gain or lose.<\/p>\n

They are the ones who are most closely tied to the orchestra, who are the least mobile. And I know in every negotiation it\u2019s said, \u201cwell the good people will leave.\u201d<\/p>\n

The good people don\u2019t always leave because there\u2019s not that many places to go and it\u2019s not that simple a market. The real issue is that musicians have much more at stake in the health of an orchestra than do managements, who are much more flexible, and certainly more than the board members. And so, I wish this conversation, just sharing ideas, could be held constantly in good faith. \u201cWhat would be great? What would be interesting? What would be important?\u201d And then, how do we make this work? What\u2019s the role of musicians, of management, of the board? I don\u2019t see that happening enough on an ongoing basis. It needs to be in a familial exchange, just talking as human beings.<\/p>\n

KC:<\/strong> I really like this and I want to talk about it from my perspective. The orchestras that act in the way you\u2019re describing\u2014where there\u2019s a collective effort, there\u2019s little risk to speaking truthfully to each other, and collaborating\u2014especially in this pandemic where we are forced to be as creative as possible\u2014those are the orchestras that were able to come back with interesting plans and reach agreement very quickly. But in some places, the musicians were locked out of the discussion, a decision was made and implemented without them.<\/p>\n

MK:<\/strong> And there are institutions, and believe me I\u2019m not representing anyone, management or musician\u2014I love them all\u2014where the musicians viewed this as an opportunity to negotiate harder as opposed to figure out solutions.<\/p>\n

KC:<\/strong> I\u2019m talking more about the creative aspects of this situation\u2014not negotiating\u2014<\/p>\n

MK:<\/strong> It\u2019s terrible when management locks people out of that discussion. And by the way not just musicians\u2014but everyone. Which is not to say that everyone in the world should have an equal voice in programming, but you should be receptive to listening and hearing because sometimes there are good ideas there.<\/p>\n

KC:<\/strong> My second point, it\u2019s often the upper management that has the mobility but the mid-level managers tend to be here as long as we are. I tend to have very good and long lasting relationships with those people. Oftentimes it\u2019s all of us that get iced out. A new administration comes in, they enact a plan, we\u2019re told what to do\u2014<\/p>\n

MK:<\/strong> That\u2019s bad management.<\/p>\n

KC:<\/strong> I\u2019ll be sitting across from a manager I\u2019ve known for a long time and we\u2019re both frustrated because we\u2019re stuck.<\/p>\n

MK:<\/strong> That\u2019s probably true on the artistic side, on the operations side\u2014the marketers and the fundraisers can move pretty quickly.<\/p>\n

KC:<\/strong> I guess so. We don\u2019t tend to sit down with marketers & fundraisers.<\/p>\n

MK:<\/strong> But you should! Because there should be a conversation about \u201chow do we build interest in this work? How do we build interest in us as an organization?<\/p>\n

What are the interesting stories in our orchestra?\u201d If we don\u2019t talk about it, we don\u2019t share it and we can\u2019t use it. It\u2019s bad management to lock people out of these conversations. I spent a chunk of everyday walking around the Kennedy Center, years ago, just talking to people. I talked with everybody and I got their ideas and experiences. That\u2019s what a good manager does. You don\u2019t lock yourself away behind a door.<\/p>\n

MS:<\/strong> I think we have a decades old, systemic problem of a lack of mutual respect and trust in our organizations. We have solidified, in many places, behind our walls.<\/p>\n

MK:<\/strong> I think that\u2019s right. I ran cultural institutions for 35 years and I never had a labor action. There\u2019s a reason. The reason was, I didn\u2019t use negotiations as my one chance to talk to my labor. That was an everyday thing. Every day I was backstage talking and sharing and being part of the same team. This is something that\u2019s fixable.<\/p>\n

KC:<\/strong> You have to have the right people in the right places to make it work.<\/p>\n

MK:<\/strong> And you need the right leadership of the musicians too. The musician committees are not always the people who really reflect what the musicians are feeling and thinking. Many orchestra musicians abdicate to their committee because they basically just want to play music. They don\u2019t want to deal with the business end of it and they end up not being well represented because they are not involved.<\/p>\n

KC:<\/strong> Well let\u2019s finish up with a few words of encouragement. I wanted to know what you would say to an artist, who in this moment is thinking about leaving the industry? Considering a career change?<\/p>\n

MK:<\/strong> Don\u2019t. There\u2019s been a demand for art going back to the first cave dwellers who painted on their walls. People need inspiration, they need the arts, they need creativity. They value the work we do. It is a challenging industry to be a part of but it\u2019s also incredibly rewarding.<\/p>\n

What we make is so beautiful and wonderful and inspiring\u2014our communities need this. To leave the field will make you poorer, not just your community poorer.<\/p>\n

KC:<\/strong> What would you say to a manager who is trying to lead creatively, crafting that plan right now and trying to get the traction they need?<\/p>\n

MK:<\/strong> Plan farther in advance. Think about those exciting projects and then give yourself the luxury of time to find the resources to make it happen. Don\u2019t just plan exciting work for six months or a year from now. Also be planning exciting projects for two, three and four years from now. You can always talk about them now and build excitement around them now but you also give yourself the time to make those big exciting projects happen, and to find the revenue to create them.<\/p>\n

KC:<\/strong> And then, what would you say to a board who might be pessimistic about the future or is struggling to find the vision and inspiration for the path going forward?<\/p>\n

MK:<\/strong> If they are still excited about the art form, if they still want to be on the board of that organization, they are not unique\u2014there are people all over the community who are excited by that art form. The key thing is to organize properly, plan properly, and market properly to find that resource. It\u2019s not a lack of interest in the art form right now. That\u2019s a myth. There\u2019s a tremendous amount of interest in the arts\u2014we just have to make it available at the right price and we have to talk about it in the right way and we have to be exciting enough and we have to go back to dreaming about what makes a great project, rather than saying \u201cwhat can we afford to do next Thursday?\u201d<\/p>\n

KC:<\/strong> Well those are all my prepared questions. I guess my only other question is “Are you going to write another book?”<\/p>\n

MK:<\/strong> No, I think I\u2019m done. Eight was enough. I think I\u2019ve really written all I can write. I have nothing else to say.<\/p>\n

MS:<\/strong> You have plenty to say! Thank you so much for your time and willingness to speak with us.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

ICSOM invited Michael Kaiser to speak with MAL Keith Carrick and Chair Meredith Snow on the current state of the arts as we progress through this pandemic. Currently Chairman of the DeVos Institute of Arts Management, Kaiser served as president of the John F. Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts from 2001 to 2014. 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